Hello hello,
This post is more or less directed to David himself as he's on the DM egroup for the Dathkandra chat.
I've been putting stats to creatures from the Khoras setting, but the one thing i'm lacking in creating the stats for them is insider information. When i read from the site to get idea's for a creatures statistics i generally end up comparing them to certain monsters from WotC's books on them (Monster Manual 1, 2 and 3, Monsters of Faerun, etc etc), and then basing them off of a similar creature or in some cases two or more. But i'm not sure that i'm giving them the right feel for what was intended.
David is there any way you could monitor the creatures i post to the DM list to see if they're close to what you intended? Or would you rather i post them here, or in a direct email? I'd very much love to have your opinions on the monsters so i can get them as close as possible to giving off the feel you try to detail. I'll post one here as an example if nobody minds. My main reason for wanting to get your opinions is due to Dathkandra being online, with both the Khoras site and Dathkandra linked to each other i'd very much like to maintain the feel of these creatures, as you see and portray them on Khoras, on Dathkandra as well.
I'm using the Arachnicon as my example here. When i read the entry for it i immediately compared it to a Drider, but not just a Drider, i also felt it also was similar to an Ettercap. So i used the base stats for a Drider then copied abilities from the Ettercap as well as a racial bonus to the Craft: Trapmaking skill. I've left the weapons there as they're definately intelligent enough to use them and i think they'd be able to use them functionally as well, at least these ones...
On Dath we use standard HP's of 75% with the ability to "buy" full hitpoints with Karma Points (points tied to an account for helping us, RPing well, and can also be banked by spending off extra experience). With that in mind i also use the 75% hitpoints for monster hitpoints as well (when i remember to do that when i post it on the list lol, sometimes i forget).
Arachnicon
Large Aberration
Hit Dice: 6d8+18 (66 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 15 ft.
Armor Class: 18 (–1 size, +3 Dex, +6 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+10
Attack: Dagger +5 melee (1d6+2/19–20) or bite +6 melee (1d4+1 plus poison) or shortbow +5 ranged (1d8/x3)
Full Attack: 2 daggers +3 melee (1d6+2/19–20, 1d6+1/19–20) and bite +1 melee (1d4+1 plus poison); or shortbow +5 ranged (1d8/x3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Web, Poison
Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Immunity to Poison
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +8
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16
Skills: Climb +14, Craft: Trapmaking* +9, Hide +10, Listen +9, Move Silently +12, Spot +9
Feats: Combat Casting, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (bite) Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary, pair, or Collective (6-10)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: Double standard
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 15, initial damage 1d6 Dex, secondary damage 2d6 Dex. The save DC is Constitution based and includes a +2 racial bonus.
Web (Ex): An Arachnicon can throw a web eight times per day. This is similar to an attack with a net but has a maximum range of 50 feet, with a range increment of 10 feet, and is effective against targets of up to Medium size. The web anchors the target in place, allowing no movement.
An entangled creature can escape with a DC 14 Escape Artist check or burst the web with a DC 18 Strength check. The check DCs are Constitution-based, and the Strength check DC includes a +4 racial bonus. The web has 6 hit points, hardness 0, and takes double damage from fire.
Arachnicons can also create sheets of sticky webbing from 5 to 60 feet square. They usually position these to snare flying creatures but can also try to trap prey on the ground. Approaching creatures must succeed on a DC 20 Spot check to notice a web, or they stumble into it and become trapped as though by a successful web attack. Attempts to escape or burst the webbing receive a +5 bonus if the trapped creature has something to walk on or grab while pulling free. Each 5-foot-square section has 6 hit points, hardness 0, and takes double damage from fire.
An arachnicon can move across its own sheet web at its climb speed and can determine the exact location of any creature touching the web.
Hi Spence,
Yes, you've done a really good job giving stats to the fauna and creatures of Khoras. I have read every single creature you've stated for the Dathkandra online game and I agree with them all, including your explanations behind your decisions. You have also done a very good job of keeping to the spirit of each creature. That's important to me and you've capture them well.
As you get more of them done, let's talk more about adding them to the official Khoras canon.
Keep up the great work! :)
David
Of course of course...i took a break from statting them as i was getting frustrated, mostly with myself as i wasnt getting a feel for them anymore. Once i get back to it i'll plow through the books and start putting up as many more as i can, hopefully all, before i get frustrated again :)
Hi David, I'm here asking for help on statting out a certain critter for the 3.5 DnD ruleset.
The Rock Wasp in particular has my attention at the moment and is the one giving me alot of frustration.
Obviously this is going to be classified as a swarm. My issue is with the effects of their poison/venom/whatever you'd like to call it.
In DnD there's a spell or multiple spells to counter any ailment. Blindness/Deafness is countered by Remove Blindness/Deafness, Petrification is countered by Stone to Flesh, Curses are countered by remove curse, etc etc.
With the rock wasp their poison (for lack of a better term atm) is hard to classify. It's not true petrification, it doesnt cause ability damage, and it's not a curse. I know you said the only way of curing somebody of such an ailment is to find the queen and forcefully inject the antidote, but for DnD, and more specifically an online chat environment, there should be another option, because more often than not the party will do what they can to keep the wasps from flying off with their friend, and then take him/her back to the nearest town.
So here's what i was thinking: The poison of the Rock Wasps requires a fort save obviously, and if the target fails, they take 1d6 dexterity damage. When somebody reaches 0 dexterity the effects listed on the site go into effect. But then in order to save the person without getting the queen a series of spells needs to be cast.
For the spells i was thinking this: Stone to Flesh to soften the skin back to normal, Remove Paralysis to limber up the body, then restoration spells to get the dexterity back above 0 so that the PC can start healing normally the damage done to the system.
Does that sound alright to you? Or do you recommend something else or would you prefer i stick strictly to what's said on the site with regards to needing the queen to save the person effected?
EDIT: It just dawned on me i should elaborate on my hesitation with this one abit. When you're running a game for friends on Table Top and something happens to where the whole party dies, everybody knows it was just a bad run of the dice, or a bad decision made by the group. They get over it and make new characters.
When you're DMing online however, a TPK (Total Party Kill) nets you a VERY bad reputation. If it happens, people start to loose trust in the DM, and start thinking that DM is out to just kill PC's. Add to this the fact that there are people who think the DM's have full control over what the dice roller (a simple program for it from what i understand) rolls, for the DM and the players. We dont hesitate to actually kill PC's if they get stupid or make bad mistakes or just end up on the wrong side of the die roller...but we try very hard to avoid TPK's because, yes...that whole reputation thing.
The Rock Wasps...while probably just an annoyance to higher level PC's, is something that can cause a TPK on low and mid level parties. Especially if they have to go into the hive to try to retrieve a friend, that's pretty much a death sentence for your average party of low to mid levels.
Yeah, the rock wasp is one of my favorites. :)
The whole idea behind that critter is that to save a friend, you have to venture into the heart of the nest. Now, to ease it up for online role playing, you could say that high level magic could cure the person. However, it should be some serious magic. If the victim's friends are getting out of having to go into the nest, they should have to make up for it with serious spells. I'm thinking the required magic to cure someone is either a VERY powerful healing spell (such that you may have to journey to a major city to get that type of magic) or its a long list of healing spells, like what you listed. Either way, it should be expensive and require some major effort to cure someone without the venom.
Generally, feel free to bend the rules in an online gaming environment. If that is what's required. The only real rule is that everyone has fun. That's the only thing that matters. Everything is secondary. So, if allowing a cure through magic will prevent problems and let people get back to having fun, then so be it. You can cure it with magic. However, before you make the ruling, take a step back and see if there is, perhaps, an opportunity here. Is there some other way you can turn this into an adventure? Perhaps the queen wasp's antidote really is the only way, but the victim's friends aren't strong enough to make it into the nest and back. Maybe they need to hire some local heroes or high level warriors to go fetch the antidote. Maybe these hero types are mercenaries who are travelling through the area. They agree to fetch the antidote, but when they do, they lost one of their own in the nest who died. Now, they want serious payment for the antidote, or a magic item, or someone's daughter.
Or maybe there is a powerful magic item over in Tykron that has the ability to cure a rock wasp victim (the item was created for that very thing), but the owner of the item wants something before he will allow the item to be used.
Also, regarding killing off players or the whole party. I have always believed that dice should never kill off a player or group of players. If people do something incredibly stupid, then yes, kill them. But bad luck alone should never kill them. Usually, if a player has been playing very well, but an exceptionally unlucky die roll would result in his death, I fudge the die roll. I'll alter it to something else - still horribly bad for the player, but not death. Usually I'll turn it into something much more interesting and problematic for the player.
So, in summary, feel free to make adjustments to the creatures if necessary to make it work for online gaming. It's nice when you can translate Khoras stuff over to DnD v3.5 as is. But Khoras has a lot of stuff in it that doesn't always fit within the DnD structure. So, for the purposes of Dathkandra, feel free to bend things around to make them fit. Ultimately, as long as the people on Dathkandra are having fun, that's all the matters. It doesn't necessarily have to be a perfect translation every time.
I'd very much like to keep it as Canon to Khoras as possible. Unfortunately...a few of our players, particularily the highest level casters are lazy to the point of relying on magic for everything...and i do mean everything. I've presented challenges that can be accomplished through RP and they've given up because magic cant solve it, one has gone to the point of trying to create a new spell to solve a particular RP issue.
I think i'll come up with DnD mechanics for working the poison, and let them suffer if these bad guys ever get run *evil grin* Maybe it'll teach them to start thinking outside their spell list.
I just had a random thought. Do Rock Wasps have any natural predators? Possibley other insectile swarms?
Ok for the dreaded rock wasp, here's the rough draft. In order to take down a medium sized creature it'd take a swarm sized amount of rock wasps, so i opted to use swarm rules with it. I used a centipede swarm as the base abilities, then used certain abilities and whatnot from a Hellwasp Swarm.
Rock Wasp Swarm
Tiny Magical Beast (Swarm)
Hit Dice: 9d10-9 (54 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 5ft, Fly 40ft (good)
Armor Class: 17 (+3 Size, +4 Dex), touch 18, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/-
Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus poison)
Full Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 10ft/0ft
Special Attacks: Distraction, Poison
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Immune to weapon damage, swarm traits, hive mind, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +5, Refl +7, Will +5
Abilities: str 1, Dex 19, Con 8, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 2
Skills: Hide +12, Spot +7
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Ability Focus(Poison), Skill Focus(Spot), Iron Will
Environment: Mountains/Underground
Organization: Solitary, Tangle (2-4 swarms), or Colony (7-12 swarms)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: -
Combat
A Rock Wasp Swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. A swarm deals 2d6 points of damage to any creature whos space it occupies at the end of its move.
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a rock wasp swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 13, initial and secondary damage 1d6 Dex. The Save is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus. Special: When a living creature is reduced to 0 dexterity from Rock Wasp Poison they become paralyzed and their skin hardens, putting them effectively into a coma. The rock wasps will then try to carry the creature back to the hive.
Hive Mind (Ex): Any Rock Wasp swarm with at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 9 Hitpoints for a standard Rock Wasp Swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an intelligence of 6. When a Rock Wasp swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, it becomes mindless.
Does the poison sound about right or should they become paralyzed immediately upon failing?
And...cant forget her highness...
Rock Wasp Queen
Small Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 6d10+12 (54 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20ft, Fly 60ft (perfect)
Armor Class: 20 (+1 size, +4 Dexterity, +5 Natural), Touch 15, Flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+3
Attack: Bite +11 melee (1d4+1)
Full Attack: Bite +11 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Antidote
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision, Immunity to Poison
Saves: Fort: +7, Refl: +9, Will: +4
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +25
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus: Hide, Stealthy
Environment: Mountains/Underground
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 7-10 HD(Small), 11-15 HD(Medium)
Level Adjustment: -
Combat
A Rock Wasp Queen prefers to hide rather than fight. But if cornered she will deliver a nasty bite.
Antidote (Ex): The only cure for rock wasp poison is the antidote from the queen. This antidote is harmless to living creatures, but instantly counteracts all ability damage from rock wasp poison, however the victim of rock wasp poison will remain unconcious for 3d6 - Consitution hours, with a minimum of one hour.
Just as a point of interest. I'll be posting the stats that Spence has done to the Dathkandra setting website (http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~phaeton/khoras/dathkandra) as soon as I get my desktop back in order.
Keith
*mutter* Yes he will...not that i like having the stats where players can easily view them...i like advancing things and hate it when people say i'm running something wrong when they dont know what i'm really doing.
QuoteYes he will...not that i like having the stats where players can easily view them...i like advancing things and hate it when people say i'm running something wrong when they dont know what i'm really doing.
Then tell them to submit their own ideas or lump it.
You missed my point. If the stats are out there for players to see, they assume that because i'm running say...an Arachtopus, that it's going to be the one listed on the site, where-as i might be running a slightly advanced one that has some extra quirks.
Actually that gives me an idea...I think you need a disclaimer on the beastiary page "These are only typical versions of said creatures, the DM may or may not be running them with these stats". That might end the PM's i'm prone to getting...
That, and you could reference them to the abberation section with a hyperlink.
No Tanis, I believe the disclaimer would be the better idea by far. As the DM they have the ability to do whatever they wish with the monster's etc., but some players have a hard time grasping something like that (or at least I assume so.) So if a person ever has a complaint all Spence would have to do is PM them back a link to that page.
Yeah, I just kind of figured that if a player that sees the disclaimer and also is referred to other possibilities, they would be more understanding. Me, I am an abberant, so I never forget.
Most of the creatures are now statted out and on the pages, so for everybodies enjoyment here on the forums i'll link the page to you.
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~phaeton/khoras/dathkandra/bestiary.html
Thanks to Phaeton for the webwork, Sarah, Phil, Mikey and once again Phaeton for the reference materials and idea's when i was stuck (which was often). But mostly thanks to David as they're all his creations!
Not all of them are on there just yet, we gotta playtest some of the others to make sure we didnt make them too overpowered...(I think we made a Scythe Lizard more powerful than a standard DnD dragon, might have to change that lol)
Congratulations on finishing this huge project. I know you've been working on this for some time. Thanks to you and the others who helped for statting all these Khoras creatures. I'm sure many people will get much use out of these stats. Including me in my next campaign! ;)
lol, too many numbers and
explanations :o, but hey
looks good to me, but hey i
really wouldnt know, i dont
play alot of board games
in the classical D and D style.
Hmm tell me if this would be a
good idea.
Have one number and compare
each monster to it in terms
of athletics, dexterity, intellegence,
etc, and each of those will be
based on the information from
the fauna section of the site.
For example, a polar worm is
considered very fast, strong
and has the brains to surprise
its opponents, Lets say
my main number for monsters
in the game is 40, for Dex
it would have hmm 25 because
it is nimble and can move through
the snow quick because
of its hot 2nd head hehe,
for its athletics, well its a pretty
big creature weighing tons and
near 30-60 feet long, so well
make it a high number lets say
35, and for intellegence,
Besides being smart enough to
surprise its opponents, its not
too smart to quickly go
back underground and leaves
its soft padded spots behind
armor sections open to your character
making me say its intellegence
should have 15. now We do the
same for our characters in
this style but you start out with o say
20 points to spend on each skill and
attribute, and as you level up
you can have more. Would this be
an ok idea????
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with that idea...maybe a little more info on it would be helpful?
Well, basically you and your friends are quantifying the attributes of characters and monsters in a numeric fashion. This is the basis for all role playing games. Quantifying reality through mathematics so that you can compare and extroplate in meaningful ways. That's a fancy way of saying that you're building a game.
But anyway, the deal is that you guys may be re-inventing the wheel. You mention that you aren't familiar with D&D. You should take a look at D&D and many of the other role playing games out there. These systems are already built and ready to use. If you find one you like, you don't have to bother building one. You can also modify a game if you don't like something in it.
Or, you can keep going the way you are and just build your own game. But it's a lot of work. If you're having fun, great. Keep going. Just know that building a game is a lot of work, but it's also very rewarding. For me, I'd rather just start with an existing game and tweak it until it's the way I want it. That way, we can get to the good stuff faster - namely, stories and adventures and such.
Ok, so that's a long winded response, but the answer is "Yes, it's a good idea". :)
Quote from: Spence on September 28, 2006, 11:52:59 AM
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with that idea...maybe a little more info on it would be helpful?
i mean basing monsters and characters
attributes on their characteristics from
the written sections of this site about them
and base all the attributes of a certain number
Ok, I think I understand. Not sure, but let me answer. Yes, it's a good idea to base the statistics on the descriptions found in the Khoras site. I've been very careful to leave numbers out of it so that you can use any game system you want. However, I usually try to describe things in such a way that you have a good idea of how strong, fast, smart, etc someone or some creature is. That's basically what Spence did with the bestiary he worked on. He read the description and took his best guess. And took into account other creatures in order to figure out how tough to make them.