Inside a very old ruins

[Delbareth]

One of my party is going to an nearly-undiscovered-ruin of an old thullian tower (undiscovered because nothing remains at the ground level, but very low levels are still there). And the questions is : what can be found after about 3000 years? It's not really a khorasian question, more an archeological question.

My idea is that is should depend on the humidity level through the ages. But if this humidity level is not very low, I think all things based on wood are completely reduced to dust for a long time (no chest, no table, no chair, no shelf...). All things based on iron should be heavily eroded by rust. No iron item should be useful. I think bones should also be reduced to dust. I know that gold do not rust and should be probably still good. But what about other materials like paper (books)? I fear that such type of ruins is desperately empty.
If I gather archeology memories, they always find some interesting stuff IN the ground or in sealed devices. Perhaps some valuable things could be hidden for 3000 years under some decimeters of ground (where the ceiling or a wall partially collapse and recover a part of a room).

I placed a golem build by an alliance mage Lord and guessed that something build by such a man can withstand 3000 years with only medium-damage (better alloy for some part of the golem, only few parts completely rusted, magic level low but enough to move the gollem...). For the moment I did'nt put anything else because there is a crack in the lowest level having enable skrells to come and to loot anything for several centuries. But above the gollem (where skrells never goe), there should probably be something interresting... I don't want to use a lot of "magic item" kept intact just "by magic" and I really would like to know what they can found there.

[Golanthius]

If the ruins were "sealed" or closed off from outside environment, anything enchanted should be relatively intact. I would agree that all papyrus, vellum or wood would be destroyed unless in a sealed container, however any steel alloy, gold, or silver would not be damaged or only slightly damaged.

I haven't read up on Thullian technology, so I don't know if they even had steel alloy...

[Delbareth]

If the ruins were "sealed" or closed off from outside environment, anything enchanted should be relatively intact.

It's just because you (as a DM player I guess) say that anything enchanted should have a better preservation than a standard item. But it's not the case in my game, or only if the mage has taken some special material or has added a specific enchantement for that purpose.

That's why I said I don't seek for an solution like "All the magic items remains..."

[Golanthius]

If the ruins were "sealed" or closed off from outside environment, anything enchanted should be relatively intact.

That's why I said I don't seek for an solution like "All the magic items remains..."

I would agree that all papyrus, vellum or wood would be destroyed unless in a sealed container, however any steel alloy, gold, or silver would not be damaged or only slightly damaged.

Thus my last statement.

[avisarr]

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that humidity/moisture is the main culprit in the deterioration of materials. The environment is everything and will determine the condition of all materials. I've read that in certain Egyptian tombs, where the conditions were VERY dry, almost everything survives. All organic material such as wood, paper, leather and even bread can survive for many centuries. Of course, the bread, as I understand it, was rock hard, but the point is that it had not disintegrated. Bodies found buried in the desert, under extremely dry conditions, have been mummified naturally and have been remarkably well preserved.

The same thing is true for metal. Moisture will promote rust and corrosion, but metal survives pretty well under dry conditions. Iron only rusts in the presence of moisture. If the conditions are dry enough, metal won't rust or corride at all.

So, it's up to you. If the tomb is dry, stuff survives pretty well. If it's a dank, wet cave, everything would have corroded and fallen apart. (Sealed containers that are air tight would protect individual items).

[Delbareth]

Ok, thanks to you two!
That's what I feared, since the crack in the lowest level connect this ruins to the underground air, which should not be absolutely dry throught the ages.

[tanis]

While humidity is important, oxygen is also big a factor. In a place where the air is stale and there is little oxygen, oxidization is low. And it is actually oxygen which causes rust and decay of most elements and chemicals. Water only serves to greatly catalyze the reaction, as well as to aid the growth of decaying agents such as fungus and mold. I would say that even if there is some moisture, if it was not transferred to the stale air, and if there was little to no ventilation of the stale air from when the ruin was buried (in other words, if the air had not been refreshed, even periodically), you would likely have a better chance of salvaging materials. However, due to the fact that some of the moisture would inevitably reach and modify the stale air, some things would still probably have damage. For instance, paper, wood, and other vegetable products like rope would probably have begun to rot. While the humidity helps this, if there is only slight moisture and little to no oxygenated air, the process would be severally slowed. But once these things were returned to the presence of oxygen and sunlight, they would probably begin to catch up to their inevitable deterioration. So while not everything that was viable in the dungeon would be lost after entry and exit of the dungeon, don't be surprised if your players exit the dungeon and half of a book crumbles within minutes.

I don't know how you could do it in your particular system, but most likely I would go with some things requiring a roll to see if they were damaged after your players find them, and again after they leave the dungeon. Things like wood, paper, and cloth would go first, then leather, then iron, then steel, followed by tin, bronze, copper, silver, gold, and finally platinum. I hope this list covers at least most of any potential items they would want to loot.

And sorry for throwing off some of the simplicity you were probably hoping for Delbareth.

[Delbareth]

Haha!Thanks Tanis! You have noticed that I love "chance roll"
But I think 3000 years is a very long time. It's worse than if we found something of roman empire! I think you are completely right on the physico-chemical phenomena. But on this timescale, either an item can be corroded and is then completely reduced to dust, or he can't (because of the material or of the conditions) and is then in quite good state.
Nevertheless, an "intact" item can still become very very fragile (as you say), like an old scroll which goes in pieces when you unroll it.

In my case I think that it depends :

• if they don't dig, they won't find anything valuable (only some gold coins or some (broken?) items in glass
• if they dig , they could find some very fragile but still intact things like books, scrolls...

[tanis]

Okay that sounds pretty good, but I will say that if it is kept in a glass container which is still in good condition like a closed jar or case, it should preserve MUCH better. So say if the glass container is intact it survives and if the glass is cracked it has damage, but if the glass is completely broken it is destroyed.