A recent email prompted this topic...
I'd like to take an informal poll about Religion. As a player, do you think deities should have specific origins that related how they ascended to godhood or should the gods be all powerful mystical figures who have always existed and whose histories are shrouded in myth?
If you look at Earth's religions, it seems that it's not uncommon for a god to walk the Earth. Jesus walked the Earth, according to Christian mythology. Muhammad was a historical figure and a prophet according to Islam beliefs. And Confucius was a philosopher who started a philosophy, rather than a religion.
In the context of a fantasy game, should the gods have origins that tell how they once were common mortals, but due to superhuman efforts or extraordinary circumstances, they "ascended" to godhood?
What's your preference? This is just an informal poll with no close date. Anyway who reads this, feel free to chime in. Should gods start out as lowly mortals and rise up? Or should the gods "always have been". Or should it be a mix and vary from god to god? Shoudl the histories of gods be very specific about how they came to be or should it be myth heaped upon legend shrouded in mystery?
I'm asking honestly because I find the Religion section of Khoras the hardest to write and the most difficult to structure. I'm curious to see what other gamers think?
Hmm... I don't know really. It all depends on so much. And there's also the question of whether or not the gods should be real (like in DnD) or not (like in real life... hope I'm not offending anyone here). Obviously, in a fantasy world, it's more cool if the gods really exist. I created a fantasy world, Maelaros, that we still play in once in a while, in which there were three major religions, and none of the gods really existed. Instead there were three dragons sleeping in the central mountains of the world. The dragons influenced the world through their dreams, and their beleifs and thoughts became the religions of the lesser races. One religion was a very Christianity-like monotheistic religion. Another was a Pantheon like Norse, Greek, Roman mythology. The third one was more buddhistic (spelling?) in nature.
Usually, though, I like it better if the gods really exist in the fantasy world. I've never really liked the idea that they ascend from mortals. I think it degrades them, somehow, or makes them less divine. There are a lot of good ways to do this, sure. But my preference, I think, is to have the gods be a whole other class of beings. Whether they created the world or arrived later, or whatever, is a whole other story, but I always like to know where they came from, or how they came to be. It doesn't have to be much, but the more the better.
well i dont do too much on religion for RPG's
but here is my thought...
if they are a god they should not have been mortal
but if you wanted to make some demi-gods they could
have ascended to thier demi-god state, or be children
of gods who mated with a mortal...those could walk
the earth so to speak..
maybe?
Well, it seems that we've got a consensus. 3 for 3 for the Gods having never walked the world as mortals. :) I like that. If you guys are representative of the gamer population at large, I guess that pretty much answers my question. Thanks!
Hello!
I'm new on this forum but I'm already fan of the World of Khoras (I will introduce myself later if you want). In fact, my opinion on this delicate topic is not the same as yours ;D. I deeply prefer a solution 50/50 with very powerful true gods and with "new" lesser gods.
I see several arguments (relevant or not, you choose) in favor of this situation in comparison with a situtation with "only" true gods.
- Less powerful new gods are not equivalent to less powerful true gods. Some people may prefer them because they come from their land, their nation, their race, etc... And it explains why true gods have few interraction with the real world. New gods would be closer to human and want to help (or control, or kill...) them.
- In the same way, it could cause conflicts between old "wise" and new "ambitious" gods. It can also explain that new gods want to be worshipped and act clearly in the world.
- It is more original : most of other stories speak about omnipotent gods, creating worlds and influencing civilisations. New gods bring somethings different in this scheme. Khoras is quite particular, why doing something classical? (ok, that's vile flattery ;) )
- New god existence do not implie that a simple human can become god. The "human" could be not really human, for example a powerful spirit who wants to access to godhood by incarnating a human body. In my opinion, it removes a killing point of the new gods concept : the fact that anybody very important (great emperor or wizard) should become god.
- Some guy may try to found their own religion, even if there is nothing behind. I agree that this argument is less strong. It's possible if only true gods exist, but it is made easy with new gods.
I think all these reasons leads to a larger game potential. That's why I'm not for a solution without true gods. And I don't like the solution with only new gods (it was very surprising when I first red the Ithria gods description). But I think that a mix of true and new gods could be very good.
Interesting points. All of them. I'm not really arguing the case one way or the other. The truth is that I'm divided on the subject and was curious what other gamers think about religion and the role of gods in a fantasy world. I like hearing the arguments for the different ways of setting up a pantheon.
I think that the Religion section in Khoras is one of the weak spots of the site and should, eventually, be rewritten. Anyway, that's the long term goal. But before I rewrite it, I wanted to hear opinions and do some research. I'm still formulating my strategy.
Thanks for your input! It helps. :)
From a player standpoint and a DM/GM standpoint, i'm also divided, however if it fits the campaign for it to be one way or the other, i'm all for it. Some campaigns are designed for mortals to ascend and thusly it makes sense for Gods to have been of the mortal races.
Some campaigns are designed to have very little divine intervention, even in the form of clerics (or the equivilent). And then it would make far more sense for the Gods to have always been there and never walked the earth, not caring much about mortal life.
So...as i said, whatever fits the campaign the best is what i like...i see no point in having a campaign designed to have mortals ascend to godhood if the Gods are Uncaring and distant (unless that's the ENTIRE reason for the ascension, to have some gods who'll do something).
I feel a bit derivative here, but:
In Warhammer Fantasy the main human god is Sigmar, who was so heroic and died so heroically that people venerated him afterwards, thinking he ascended to deity status.
Also, it's occasionally common in D&D-type modules to have a god return to the world in a very powerful avatar form, and very bad things happen.
Like Baal in Baldur's Gate.