Hi. Thanks for publishing this wonderful world! I intend to use a whole lot of the information here in a new campaign for my adventures.
It's easy to tell this work is the result of passion. The world is rich, vibrant, and unique. Nicely done!
Now on to my question... :D
If the size of the planet is similar to the size of Earth, and the size of Ithria is comparable to the size of the [continental] United States (~3,000 miles West-East), is it safe to assume that Ithria would support ~4 time zones?
I suppose I'm assuming that the planet rotates once in about 24 hours...
good question...i hadnt really thought about that...i'm gonna apply that to my world too.
it does appear to be about 8,000 miles in dia so approximately the same 24 hour period.
as you can see here earths broken into 25 slots at 8000 miles. it should be 1 time zone
every 320 miles....but as in the USA example you can see that the 4 time slots are
actually wider then that..how you get 25 slots into 24 hours is anyones guess... :(
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/TimeZoneMap2004.jpg
technically from the map it looks like the USA should have 5 zones
mathmatically it should have 9....
when i try to do some weak overlays it looks to me as if ithria might have 9 zones
wally
here is what i worked up for my world if you think it should change let me know
i want it to be as realistic as possible.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6404/ktimeal3.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ktimeal3.jpg)
8000 miles accross and 26 time slots for a 26 hour day. and west is east and east is west.
Well, for time zones to matter much, people need to care enough about what time it is to try to measure it accurately. Time zones to the hour probably only matter in reasonably modern societies where travel across timezones is commonplace and people wear watches.
I was more interested in time zones because I'm giving my players a way to travel cross-continent quickly, but the first several times it happens, they won't even notice it's happening. Unless they see a change in the light when the transition occurs. They wouldn't see that if the continent spanned maybe 2 time zones, but they definitely could see it going coast-to-coast across 4-5 time zones.
Quote from: thc1967 on July 10, 2007, 10:09:12 AM
Well, for time zones to matter much, people need to care enough about what time it is to try to measure it accurately. Time zones to the hour probably only matter in reasonably modern societies where travel across timezones is commonplace and people wear watches.
I was more interested in time zones because I'm giving my players a way to travel cross-continent quickly, but the first several times it happens, they won't even notice it's happening. Unless they see a change in the light when the transition occurs. They wouldn't see that if the continent spanned maybe 2 time zones, but they definitely could see it going coast-to-coast across 4-5 time zones.
so are you moving accross ithria or some other world....what are the distances you are traveiling 100 miles 1000? 3000?
is there a map we can see of what your trying to accomplish?
They could move around a lot, but the largest jump for the foreseeable future is probably 4/5 of the way across Ithria, East-West, so 3-4 time zones. In theory they could go to the other continents too, but I'm not going to be ready to let them go there for a while yet.
So say they leave the East coast of Ithria at twilight and their target is near the west coast. Clearly the sun's position and the day's brightness will change.
Of course, they could also go North-South, from very cold to very warm climates, but within the same time zone so I suppose that could be a clue too.
Hmm...
hope you dont mind dave i shrunk your image and put it on a file shre thing JUST for THIS forum....
(http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/784/itimejk7.th.jpg) (http://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=itimejk7.jpg)
here is ithria with 4 times zones....
if they jumped the yellow line...probably not notice the 1 time zone change
but if the jumped the blue line still only 1 zone away they might notice a change
and of course if they jumped 2 zones away they would notice a change.
actually talking time zones might not be what you need to worry about realy cuase with time zones this size
one side of the zone could be darker then the other...
just as GM roll thier intellegience and see if they notice.
they'd still need to take a star look to know where they might be on the globe.
Interesting conversation.
Time zones are really an artificial, arbitrary system imposed on a natural phenomenon. You could have time zones that are one hour apart, 3 hours apart, or 15 minutes - depending on how wide each "zone" is. It all depends on the society that created the system.
In a primitive "swords and sorcery" campaign, you normally don't have to worry about time zones because people can't travel fast enough to notice a change in daylight.
If you happen to throw teleport magic in there where your party of heroes can jump a couple thousand miles in the blink of an eye, then yes, they are definitely going to notice a big change. If they travel 2000 miles north, it's colder. If they travel 2000 miles west at dusk, they'll notice it's suddenly daylight. Yes, you are correct on all of that.
Time zones, as a standardized system, would probably only exist if you had a massive region under a single government which was also capable of fast travel. Typically, a modern information age society. On Khoras, there is no such government or at least none of the major nations have bothered. Educated scholars and some political leaders are aware of the fact that it's different times of the day at different points on the planet, but since magical teleportation is rare, establishing a common system of time zones isn't needed.
For the record, Khoras has no concept of time zones. If you teleport 3000 miles, you will notice a shift in the daylight, but the concept of "time zones" just hasn't been invented yet. Simply because there is no need. When 99.999% of the population travels VERY slowly, time zones just aren't needed.
Now, if your heroes have an item that teleports them at random... well, that's pretty cool. You can whisk them 3000 miles (or whatever) and then it's up to them to figure out where they are. Daylight is a clue. Weather, terrain, the stars - all can be used as clues to figure out position.
Whether or not the characters are going to NOTICE a change in daylight is entirely dependent on how far they alter their position from east to west. Also, weather might obscure this a bit. An overcast gloomy day might appear somewhat similar at morning, noon and evening. Really, it's up to you. All things being equal, I'd probably give them some kind of perception roll to notice if the change was subtle enough that they might miss it.
Looking back on what I just wrote, I realize that my answers are never short... are they? :)
And Sid6.7, you are welcome to do anything with my maps that you need to. You have my implicit trust. ;)
Hello!
As was previously said, it's important for very fast travel, but also for magical long distance communication. Ok it doesn't fit your situation but I wanted to add this point.
If I were you, I'll had some details about typical day-to-day activities like lunch. If your characters are teleported (teleportated?) at 14:00 to a time-zone 2 hours earlier, they will see everybody going to lunch a second time! :o I think it's more impressive to go back in time than forward (so to the west rather than to the east), because they could guess that the teleportation is not instantaneous and may skip some hours in the corridor of time. With this type of well chosen examples (lunch, zenith prayer, tea time :D...), even small instantaneous travel may be strange.
If you travel from north to south on a long distance, from one hemisphere to the other, I see two main interresting things to develop. During day time, the suns indicate the north instead of the south. It can be very disturbing for them if they have to orientate themselves. :) During night, the star are unknown since invisible from the other hemisphere. They could even imagine they are not on the same planet :o (it's not possible during day because the two stars should be quite characteristic).
Anyway, it's an interesting question.
And, David, yes your answers are quite long but always captivating ;)
Hmm... hemispheres. I hadn't thought of that one. Drains swirl clockwise in the northern and counter-clockwise in the southern.
Where's the equator in relation to the continents?
The equator passes just south of the Pirate Isles and just north of the continent of Qeshir. It passes almost directly through the capital city of the Padashan Empire on Qeshir.
Ok we now know where is the equator, but I'm a little bit disappointed by another point : the tropic.
On Earth, there are tropics because the planet is tilted on its orbit (23° if I'm right, and Khoras is more tilted!). So in summer, the sun hit the ground more effectively on one tropic, and in winter more effectively on the other tropic (where it is summer then). It leads to a very desertic region : Sahara, Mexico, Australia... On the contrary, the equator is a more wet region with a dense vegetation (Amazonia, Central Africa...).
But how is it on Khoras. The equator goes through the north of Padashan Empire, Karth and the south of Sarid... Ok Karth and Sarid has a lot of jungles, but Padashan Empire is far from green (same for the Atabi desert). And there is also problems with tropics... We should find desert north and south of the equator but it is not the case... ???
I think that kind of depends.
And as far as the Sahara, the equator runs through northern not central africa. and i think the tropics are at something like 15 or 20 degrees off the equator.
regardless, still a very good question.
I guess its the same latitude than the tilted angle of the planet. ;)
Hello David?
I don't know if you hadn't seen my question (see several posts below) or if you had seen it but it annoy you deeply. I just wanted to have your point of view about this problem of tropic... ???
And sorry again if you find me too fussy :-[
Delbareth,
No, you're not too fussy. On the contrary, I love the fact that you are very detailed. You catch a lot of stuff and, in the process of fixing all of the little glitches that you find, Khoras becomes a better world. So, definitely keep it up.
I didn't answer this one because I didn't see it. Sometimes I don't catch them all.
Now, as for the terrain types on and near the equator, I didn't use a scientific method. But it seems to me that the equator, on Earth, runs through a couple of desert areas and also a lot of tropical jungle. All along the equator you have one common factor - lots of light and lots of heat. The only difference, from region to region, is the flow of air and water currents and the amount of moisture in any one particular region.
On Khoras, I've got pretty much the same thing. On and near the equator you'll find deserts and jungle. Both hot... but it varies from region to region based on air and water currents. Sometimes you'll have desert on one side of a mountain and jungle on the other. It's called a rain shadow. The clouds flow against the mountain and drop all their moisture on one side. The air on the other side is very dry. The Barakose Swamp and Baen Desert is an example of a rain shadow.
Anyway, meterology is pretty complex when you take into consideration the flow of air currents, water currents, terrain, latitude and a hundred other things. It was more math and science than I wanted to deal with. So, the short answer is... I just distributed jungle and arid regions in a pattern that approximates the randomness of the real world while taking into account relative position and topology. Not a perfect solution, but it gets us close. For the purposes of gaming and fiction writing, we can just assume that wherever you find a desert, there is a complex arrangement of atmospheric patterns that PUT that desert there. Same goes for jungles, swamps, etc.
It's probably possible to feed data into a computer program concerning terrain, axial tilt, etc and have it run a simulation of a few billion years and then show you exactly where the deserts and jungles would end up. But I'm not that extreme. :)
lol :D
Understood!
I thought that tropic were always the place for desert and equator alwyas the palce for jungle and deep forest. But after a second look at google Earth, it is not an absolute rule. Without going deep into mathematical simulations, the sun light hits the ground more violently on tropic than on equator, but the influence of climate is also strong. The north tropic goes through north India and Birmania, and nobody can say that these countries are desertic. In the same way, equator goes through Kenya and south Somalia, which are not very dense jungles.
So ok, these few exceptions make the khorasian geography more credible. I'm now ok with that.
:)