KhorasForum

Would there be anyway to expand the world of Khoras?

If we look at other series for ideas, MMORPG's always have was to incorporate game expansions into their storylines to explain away why a suddenly huge landmass and species appeared.

Just going with Everquest, these are all possible ideas:

1. Explorers discover new continent.

2. Magic portals discovered to travel to moon, another planet, sun, other astronomical object.

3. Undersea kingdom discovered.

4. Underground empire discovered.

5. Deities or some other force raises up new lands.

6. Magickal planes discovered.

7. Portal to alternate universe (too similar to pre-existing world to be considered a "plane", since planes suggest spirits, weird magick, and floating landmasses)

Could any of these or other ideas be used in the future to bring new civilizations/races into Khoras?

Those are all good and valid ways to open up new civilizations and cultures.

First of all, Khoras does have a number of underground nations that are hinted at (such as the sarthak), but are never really fully revealed. Details on the Underworld are coming much later. But DMs could easily detail out whole nations under the ground if they need room to expand.

Same thing goes for civilizations in the deep sea. The Khoras web site mentions the merfolk and the thallassians... two aquatic races that have whole cities under the waves. But those are not detailed yet and an enterprising DM could make adventures there.

New continents... yes, I think it would be possible that a new, smaller continent, could be discovered. There are some big oceans out there that haven't been explored yet. Who knows what's out there? :)

Magic portals to the moon or another planet? Well, yes, that's a possibility. As a matter of fact, there's a secret about one of the moon's of Khoras. Thrykar, the smallest moon, is green and there's a reason why it's green. There's a hidden puzzle about that with pieces of the puzzle hidden around the site. You'd have to really read deep to figure out all the clues and figure out the secret behind Thyrkar. Anyway, I've already said enough that you could make an educated guess. But WHO is behind it? That's the secret. That's the key. :)  Anyway, this is yet another corner of Khoras that has been hinted at but has not yet been detailed. It's another area where much has been written but not uploaded yet. One day, eventually, I will full detail and reveal that puzzle.

Deities raising continents? An interesting idea. There was a continent called Grallun that sank beneath the waves centuries ago. Perhaps a god or a mad wizard could raise it back up. Lots of possibilities there.

Portals to other worlds or dimensions? Absolutely. As a matter of fact, most gamers consider the "Primer Material Plane" (i.e. the Universe) to be merely one of many Prime planes. In other words, there are hundreds of "worlds" that overlap in the center of the cosmological chart with links to the inner and outer planes and all that stuff. I don't really bother with the cosmology and alternate realities because most Game Masters, gamers and games already have plenty of that stufff - D&D has the Manual of the Planes and the Spelljammer stuff. Also, most online worlds state that they have portals to other worlds. And Khoras hints at a few such portals. So, yes, absolutely, there are portals that lead from Khoras to other worlds and from other worlds to Khoras. There's room enough in this multiverse for MANY worlds.

So, I guess the final answer is that, yes, there are a million ways you could expand Khoras, if you want to. Some of your suggestions I have hinted at on Khoras and will eventually get around to detailing out completely. Other ideas (like portals to other worlds) don't really need to wait on me. You can go ahead and follow portals to other worlds right now if you like. Or if you want to bring other races and things to Khoras through magical portals, yes, you could do that.

As a matter of fact, there's even a firm precedent for it. The nation of Duthelm opened up a portal to another world during the first Demon War and made an alliance with a god like being there and brought the Xorians (a warrior race) through the portal. The Xorians fought as an ally along side Duthelm during that war. Later, there was a political breakdown and the xorians parted from Duthelm. But the Xorians are still in Khoras, beings from another dimension.

Plus you've got sorcerers summoning demons and all that. So there's plenty of precedent if you want to bring something or someone INTO Khoras.

Boy, I always give long winded answers, don't I?  ;)

Quote from: David Roomes on February 09, 2006, 04:39:16 PMSome of your suggestions I have hinted at on Khoras and will eventually get around to detailing out completely.

I was just wondering if any of your government types like "meritocracy" or "krytocracy" will ever be used.  The description of meritocracy is almost identical to a rough general idea to the government of ancient China, one of the human cultures that doesn't have an analogue in Khoras...

I was wondering if it was possible in the future for explorers to discover another civilization, this one dominated by cultures rather like the far Eastern ones.  Once you think about it, after "Arabian Nights"-type additions, the most popular expansions in sword and sorcery fantasy medieval games would be to add a Far Eastern expansion complete with ninjas and shaolin monks that kind of blend in the real world cultures in fits of stereotypical mythical exuberance.

Would you consider expanding in such a way?  Perhaps there's a rich Imperial China-type civilization peopled by a human offshoot race, immensely rich and isolationist, just like the historical dynastic China.  This Empire would dominate the islands in the region as tributary states that gradually carry their unique goods to the known world of Khoras through trade, but few have actually sought the source, thinking they're just legends and the artifacts are the remnants of some dead civilization beyond the sea. 

Without duplicating each and every ancient human civilization, you could have two major nations there- a China analogue, and a Japan analogue.  Both have been hostiles for centuries.  The Japan-analogue is considering opening up to the rest of Khoras, whilst the China-analogue is apathetic.  Would meeting the rest of Khoras destroy the ancient meritocracy?  It's up to the player...

It's not like I'm pestering you for an expansion, I'm just wondering if you have any more ideas for nations and races to be introduced eventually.  If you don't have any ideas of this large scale, please consider this one!

Quote from: David Roomes on February 09, 2006, 04:39:16 PMBoy, I always give long winded answers, don't I?  ;)

I love it.  Thanks for being comprehensive in your reply.

You're right in that I don't have a China inspired nation. The Aukarian Republic culture is based loosely on feudal Japan. But I don't know much about ancient China. None of the current Khoras nations could be made to look like ancient China without major revisions. I think if I ever did mix that type of culture in to Khoras, it would end up being a new nation.

If you really want to get your fix of samuari and ninja and geisha girls, then take a look at the Aukarian Republic. These things are there. They go by different names, but all of those castes are definitely represented in Aukaria.

For the record, I may expand Khoras one day. Right now it's got three major continents and 45 nations. There's plenty to work on and I'm concentrating on those 45 nations. It will probably be a long time before I ever add a fourth continent and a bunch of new nations. I'm not saying it will never happen. It might. But it's going to be a while.

In the mean time, DMs are free to add a fourth continent in their own campaigns if they like.

Also, there are a couple of nations and regions that I have not yet satisfied with yet. Out of 45 nations, there are probably about 5 of them that I think should be much better. Those handful of nations haven't yet "clicked" for me and they need to evolve. It's possible that one of those regions may undergo a radical shift and I may very well base it one ancient China or pre-Colombian or some other Earth culture that hasn't been used yet.

Quote from: David Roomes on February 10, 2006, 09:37:17 AMFor the record, I may expand Khoras one day. Right now it's got three major continents and 45 nations. There's plenty to work on and I'm concentrating on those 45 nations. It will probably be a long time before I ever add a fourth continent and a bunch of new nations. I'm not saying it will never happen. It might. But it's going to be a while.

No problem.  We'll talk about this subject when the next Winter Olympics rolls around, eh?  ;D

Quote from: David Roomes on February 10, 2006, 09:37:17 AMAlso, there are a couple of nations and regions that I have not yet satisfied with yet. It's possible that one of those regions may undergo a radical shift and I may very well base it one ancient China or pre-Colombian or some other Earth culture that hasn't been used yet.

I'm not sure if that would work.  The introduction of an ancient isolationist alien culture like China or an untouched pre-Colombian one would probably necessitate their presence away from the established world.  If not on another continent, at least in some far off island.  Then again, who knows?  I also wonder if there could be the creation of a medieval fantasy U.S. analogue- that'd be interesting.

QuoteMagic portals to the moon or another planet? Well, yes, that's a possibility. As a matter of fact, there's a secret about one of the moon's of Khoras. Thrykar, the smallest moon, is green and there's a reason why it's green. There's a hidden puzzle about that with pieces of the puzzle hidden around the site. You'd have to really read deep to figure out all the clues and figure out the secret behind Thyrkar. Anyway, I've already said enough that you could make an educated guess. But WHO is behind it? That's the secret. That's the key. Anyway, this is yet another corner of Khoras that has been hinted at but has not yet been detailed. It's another area where much has been written but not uploaded yet. One day, eventually, I will full detail and reveal that puzzle.

That sounds intreguing and I guess it's time to go digging ... and at the moment I have a PC planning to fly to the moon *g* Um .. any change of a hint to start please?

Ok, here's a cryptic clue...

Look for something that has vanished and reappeared in another form.

Oh .. are you sure you're talking about Thrykar? If I recall correctly, Night's Jewel is the smallest, and closer, moon.

Thanks for the hint

My apologies. You are correct. I said Thrykar originally, but I meant Night's Jewel. Sorry, tired brain... Night's Jewel is the smallest moon and it's the green one. And it's the one with the secret... Hope that clears it up. Good catch!

Reading this old thread again, I had an idea of what I'd find coolest:

Expanding geography/physiology by not only adding the new, but by reexplaning the old, preferably in a profoundly shocking way:
On this site, you often read that some especially bizarre life forms or diseases migt be results of either the Great War or Drellis readiation. What if this might be true to some degree, but it turned out that let's say the Stiffening actually came to Khoras from another dimension that interjoined with the "Prime Plane" by ripples in the multiversal fabric caused by the Sundering?
And by "turn out", I mean that it isn'n just another possible "GM explanation", but rather a theory that springs up within Khoras and rapidly finds followers - and more and more evidence.

Of course, it would not (only) have to be the Stiffening, it could be anything that seems to go beyond "rapid evolution" where there's a plausible common ancestor.

OK, now my mind is running wild, going tinfoil hat style - what if Alrem Evarel never actually intended the Focusing to work as he proposed but wanted something like the Sundering to open a portal for some higher beeing he had contact with?
Or someone/something else interferred with the Focusing in order to interjoin dimensions? If Alrem was merely a pawn in some multiversal game?

In any case, maybe nowaday the ripples in multiversal fabric have calmed enough for some stable gateways to be established.

As said initially - what intrigues me most about this is imagining how a society would react to the fact that history and many of its explanations and implications would have to be viewed from a completely different point of view.
And yes, I think it might be way too ambitious to assume this might become Khoras kanon, but it gave me the idea of a setting that could use a lot of great inspiration from this site, and still assume a rather different world.

Just wanted to share, hope you can enjoy it  :)

That's a fascinating idea and one I had never thought of. Specifically, an extraplanar being of immense power, Alrem being just a pawn, and the whole thing being a plot of massive scale to accomplish something - open up a portal or whatever. I like that idea a lot. And that is precisely the kind of thing that could be worked into a campaign if a GM wanted to.

If I were doing something like that, it might be a whole race of interdimensional beings trying to gain access to Khoras and the Sundering was their method. Perhaps these beings are immortal and can wait 2000 years, but in the end, they are able to open many portals. Perhaps it's an interdimensional invasion on a planetary scale! This would be one hell of a big campaign! 

Coincidentally, there is a region in Qeshir (the Borderlands) that is home to many ruins from a fantastically advanced magical race that left Khoras abruptly shortly before the Sundering took place. Perhaps they knew something was coming...  :)

And not even so much as a, "So long, and thanks for all the fish!"?

Hell of a lot of good they were. XD

Ah.. Douglas Adams... that was a good series. I need to reread that series.

It was either that or a comment about towels. ;D

I'm glad you like the idea :)

For me, the vanished race is more of a coincidence than you probably guessed, it is the missing link in one of my camapign settings fallen asleep:
I never intended to actually use Khoras as my game world, but since I read about them, I always thought that if I was to take something directly out of Khoras and use it in my game world, it would be the Mandalar.
I don't know why...ok, that's a lie, I do know why: For me, they felt like the perfect race for a campaign to be initially presented as sword fodder, as barbaric and maybe even demonic savages that players might fight against without moral quarrels. Born evil, do the world a favor by killing as any as you please, this kind of race. But then...well, you know, sometimes such assumptions can turn out to be rather...inaccurate at best.

I imagined player characters born and raised close to Mandalarian borderland that grew up with militaristic propaganda rather than historical knowledge - and players that knew nothing about Khoras, so they would also believe what they are told as "backgrond".
During the campaign the player characters might find out (or ignore the clues) that, savage as the Mandalar might be, they had a deeply rooted culture. That they did not spawn from demonic pits, but were caring parents. That they hold honor and loyalty above anything else, even if those concepts did not apply to any other race.
For example, I had something in mind that the PCs were told that the Mandalar tainted springs, infusing them with demonic plague. So the party got some "cleansing powder" to purify those wells and springs.
Hower in some incident, they would learn that this powder was actually lethal to all life forms...and later, that the Mandalar grew some algae that infused the water with nutrients they needed...sulphuric nutrients, unpleasent to homan noses, but nonetheless it was the players that where actually sent on a mission to poison enemy water supply as means of warfare.

However it all never got beyond this vague idea of a campaign/adventure setting - but now it all rearranges to some complete new pattern:
The Kithdari foresaw the interdimensional invasion, so they strategically withdrew to organize defense from somewhere else, leaving the Mandalar as guardians of some key element of the defense plan. The Mandalar do not know or understand their role, but the religious fervor with which they protect the Kithdari sites was infused into them by the Kithdari in order to get utterly loyal guardians.
The ublyak (those limestone obelisks) would get a different interpretation: As far as the Mandalar are concerned, their purpose is writing down clan history, but as far as the Kithdari are concerned, reading all of them is the key to the interdimensional defense plan. They knew the Mandalar would not be able to understand or carry out the plan, but the ublyak held alive the Mandalar dedication to the plan's defense from generation to generation (keeping burning the "white flame", as ublyak might be translated).
The Kithdari intended someone to be able to understand the ublyak- in other words, they foresaw the players' party ;-)
Of course, the players have to prove themselves worthy by their deeds in order to be accepted by the Mandalar.
Also Yaduma would not have gotten killed by coincidence, but sacrificed himself to unite the clans, as another part of the plan.

Oh and finally: I just decided to dub my campaign "Third moon rising". I intend to start it with the players getting information about some strange cult talking about a third moon, which is initially dismissed as  lunatic nonsense of meaningless cultists. However the players are given orders to completely wipe out any signs of this cult at all costs, which seems so contradict terming those cultists as "meaningless" (overall the cult appears harmless compared to other problems the authorities might be facing).
When investigating closer, the players find out that the cult refers to some Kithdari artefacts displaying a third moon on the sky - and since the Kithdari seemed to be able to foresee the sundering, the authorities that initially command the players are of course not interested in getting it known that they also predicted a third moon.
So the players would first investigate this cult, and then be sent to the Mandalar, which at this time are presented to them as a Kithdari experiment gone awry (if the players notice the inconsistency that a race as good at foreseeing cosmic events might fail at predicting the outcome of the Mandalar - all the better, since the campaign is based on players doubting what they are told).


OK, not sure if all of it fits into Khoras...I guess there, the campaign might best start in the Padashan Empire, and I did not check if everything I wrote fits in there.

Well, Drul, at the end of the day, the goal is great stories.  ;)

That certainly sounds like a fascinating campaign. If you end up running it, I'd be interested in hearing how it goes.

That sounds like a great campaign story line. I like it a lot.

I also like that you are taking elements of Khoras and blending them with your own ideas for something new. That's one of the reasons I put Khoras online... was just to share ideas with fellow gamers. I think we all feed off each other, get ideas, mix ideas together and come up with great new stuff. I love that aspect of the gaming community.

The campaign that I'm currently running, the Pieces of Eight campaign, will eventually involve the party going to the Borderlands and they will meet the mandalar and the kithdari ruins up close. When they get there, I may do a spotlight on the mandalar and the kithdari ruins. Both will probably get a lot more detail and some artwork added.